The Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Podcast

Uncover the deep structure of colonization that systematically deprives Indigenous Peoples of their human rights today.

About the show

In this podcast, an Indigenous woman and a white settler woman — both Anabaptists — uncover the deep structure of colonization that systematically deprives Indigenous Peoples of their human rights today. This deep structure — called the Doctrine of Discovery— is rooted in church doctrines that originated in the15th century and that still justify current laws and policies that justify the removal of land from Indigenous Peoples.

Together, Sarah Augustine and Sheri Hostetler started a coalition of Anabaptist people of faith that seek to dismantle the Doctrine of Discovery. Sarah is an activist and scholar, the descendant of the Tewa People, and a displaced person. Sheri is a Mennonite pastor in San Francisco and an activist.

Episodes

  • Episode 19: Vision

    June 6th, 2022  |  Season 2  |  41 mins 54 secs

    In this episode, Sarah and Sheri talk about Sarah’s “100-year vision” for the Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Coalition. Sarah will begin as the full-time Executive Director of the Coalition on July 1.

    To contribute to Sarah’s salary campaign, please go here (https://dofdmenno.org/salary-campaign/). Every dollar you donate will be matched by Sheri’s congregation, First Mennonite Church of San Francisco, through Indigenous Peoples Day of this year (October 10).

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    Episode 18: Conservation and Decolonization

    May 23rd, 2022  |  Season 2  |  41 mins 18 secs

    It’s almost summer and many of us will be traveling to the U.S.’s national parks for vacation and recreation. In this episode, Sarah and Sheri talk about how the formation of our national parks, the conservation movement that inspired their formation, and colonization have gone hand in hand. They also talk about how conservation could be decolonized.

    For more information:
    Link to The Atlantic article, “Return the National Parks to the Tribes” by David Treuer
    Statistics from Cultural Survival can be found here.

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    Episode 17: Redistricting and the Doctrine of Discovery

    May 9th, 2022  |  Season 2  |  48 mins 41 secs

    In this episode, Sarah and Sheri talk about Sarah’s experience of serving as chair of the Washington State Redistricting Commission and the impact of that redistricting process on Native people.

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    Episode 16: Beyond Electric Cars and Renewable Energy

    April 25th, 2022  |  Season 2  |  43 mins 12 secs

    In this episode, Sarah and Sheri talk about why renewable energy and electric cars and green growth won’t save us – and how these things are linked to the same extractive, dominating worldview of the Doctrine of Discovery.

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    Episode 15: Unsettling Truths: An Interview with Mark Charles

    April 11th, 2022  |  Season 2  |  48 mins 29 secs

    In this episode, Sarah and Sheri talk with activist, author and Dine leader Mark Charles, who wrote Unsettling Truths: The Ongoing, Dehumanizing Legacy of the Doctrine of Discovery with co-author Soong-Chan Rah. For two years, Mark led an Indigenous and settler church in Denver before moving to live on the Navajo reservation with his family for 11 years. While on the reservation, Mark became exposed to, began studying and eventually started teaching about the Doctrine of Discovery. But Creator also placed on his heart a desire for truth and conciliation. Six years ago, Mark and his family moved from the Navajo Nation to Washington, D.C., and in 2020 he ran as an independent candidate for President of the United States.

    For more information:
    Wirelesshogan.com: Mark’s website, with links to his book, videos, podcasts, other writings and Patreon page
    Link to Mark’s Youtube channel, “A Second Cup of Coffee”

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    Episode 14: Indigenous Cosmologies and Anabaptist Faith

    March 29th, 2022  |  Season 2  |  31 mins 47 secs

    In this episode Sarah and Sheri talk about how Indigenous cosmologies have helped form Sarah's Christian faith and how we both have adopted a creation-centered approach to being an Anabaptist Christian.

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    Episode 13: Stories of Repair: An Interview with Katerina Friesen

    March 14th, 2022  |  Season 2  |  40 mins 47 secs

    Sarah and Sheri talk with Katerina Friesen. Katerina was the lead editor for an educational resource called “Stories of Repair” that provides case studies on how individuals and communities have engaged in restorative justice in response to the Doctrine of Discovery DofD). For anyone who has ever asked “But what do I do?” when hearing about the structural oppression caused by the DoD, this podcast – and the “Stories of Repair” booklet are for you.

    For more information:
    To learn more about “Stories of Repair” and get a copy, go to https://dofdmenno.org/stories-of-repair/.
    https://www.saveoakflatws.com
    To learn more about our work, please read Sarah’s book, The Land is Not Empty: Following Jesus in Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery, published by Herald Press in 2021.

  • Episode 12: In case you missed them - corrected links

    November 12th, 2021  |  Season 1  |  2 mins 31 secs

    In case the links from the previous episode didn't work here they are one more time.
    Sources:
    Chapter 7 of Sarah’s book This Land is Not Empty: Following Jesus in Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery.

    As always, for more information please consult [dofdmenno.org](dofdmenno.org) and Sarah’s book.

    To make a one-time donation to the Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Coalition to fund a full-time salary for Sarah, please go here. Please designate your donation for “Sarah’s salary campaign.”

    To find out how much money you make annually from mining, check out this blog post from First Mennonite Church of San Francisco. If you are able to make an annual pledge, email the Coalition with that amount at [email protected].

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    Episode 11: Follow the Money: Colonization Continues

    November 1st, 2021  |  Season 1  |  42 mins 54 secs

    In this episode, Sarah pulls back the curtain to reveal how colonization is continuing -- legally -- through economic development projects (including “sustainable” development), international aid and through our own financial investments. We also discuss what people of faith can do about this.

    Sources:
    Chapter 7 of Sarah’s book This Land is Not Empty: Following Jesus in Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery.

    As always, for more information please consult dofdmenno.org and Sarah’s book.

    To make a one-time donation to the Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery Coalition to fund a full-time salary for Sarah, please go here ( https://dofdmenno.org/donate/). Please designate your donation for “Sarah’s salary campaign.”

    To find out how much money you make annually from mining, check out this blog post (https://blog.menno.org/2021/10/13/sermon-response-on-indigenous-peoples-day/) from First Mennonite Church of San Francisco. If you are able to make an annual pledge, email the Coalition with that amount at [email protected].

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    Episode 10: Ask an Indian, Part Two

    October 20th, 2021  |  Season 1  |  37 mins 14 secs

    Have you ever had a question you wanted to ask a Native American but were too embarrassed to ask? In this recurring episode, Sarah answers your questions. In this episode, questions including:

    What do you think about the movie Pocahontas?

    If a child will be adopted out to a loving family, why doesn’t it matter if the family isn’t Native?

    Aren't Native Americans immigrants also? They moved around a lot, too.

    Can I become Indigenous to my place by going back to the land or loving the earth or doing ecological restoration?

    My great grandmother was Native American, so I have “Indian blood.” So am I considered Native American?

    Why do so many people claim to be Cherokee, like Elizabeth Warren?

    Is wearing Indian jewelry or hanging a dream catcher, etc. cultural appropriation?

    Sources:
    Indian Child Welfare Act: For more information, listen to episode 7 of this podcast, which is all about ICWA.

    If you want to submit a question or two for a future episode, please do so at [email protected].

  • Episode 9: Ask An Indian, Part One

    October 5th, 2021  |  Season 1  |  37 mins 35 secs

    Have you ever had a question you wanted to ask a Native American but were too embarrassed to ask? In this recurring episode, Sarah answers your questions. In this episode, questions include:

    Do Native calls for land return mean that I have to give up my home?

    Doesn’t federal aid form an unhealthy dependency between the government and Indians?

    Are casinos bad or good?

    A friend has asked me to resist the Line 3 pipeline. But I know Native people who are in favor of the pipeline. Shouldn’t I wait to get involved until all Native people agree?

    What about the Cleveland Indians?

    Sources:
    Shoshone tribe of Death Valley: https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/native-americans-who-found-life-in-death-valley
    Lakota land recovery organization: https://makoceikikcupi.com
    Chief Wahoo and the Cleveland Indians: https://www.cleveland19.com/2021/07/23/indigenous-groups-respond-indians-name-change/

    If you want to submit a question or two for a future episode, please do so at [email protected].

  • Episode 8: It's complicated: Land conservation and the Doctrine of Discovery

    September 20th, 2021  |  Season 1  |  36 mins 20 secs

    Sarah shares with Sheri about her family's home and their work to be good stewards of the land through conservation and collaboration with the Yakama Nation. It has been a complicated process and they have found it hard because of policies directly tied to the Doctrine of Discovery.

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    Episode 7: ICWA

    September 7th, 2021  |  Season 1  |  33 mins 57 secs

    The Indian Child Welfare Act (ICWA) is a major piece of civil rights legislation for the Native American community, comparable to Brown vs. Board of Education for African-Americans. But in October 2018, a federal court in Texas struck down ICWA. This important law, passed in 1978, strengthened the legal rights of Indigenous families and specified that when Native children are removed from the care of their families, they will be placed in the care of extended family members, families in their own tribe, or Indigenous families from another tribe. In this episode, Sarah talks about why this legislation is so important and of the special role that Christian organizations have historically played in separating Native children from their families.

    As always, for more information please consult dofdmenno.org and Sarah’s book This Land is Not Empty: Following Jesus in Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery.

  • Episode 6: How I Discovered I Was a White Settler

    August 23rd, 2021  |  Season 1  |  37 mins 47 secs

    Sheri talks about how she “discovered” the Doctrine of Discovery and how her family’s history is entwined with the history — and present reality — of colonization. She unpacks the famous “Hochstetler Indian Massacre” story that is well-known in Amish and Mennonite communities. Both Sarah and Sheri address “What is settler colonialism”?

    Links to sources for this episode:
    Website of the Jacob Hochstetler Family Association — jhfa.net
    Definition of settler colonialism — https://globalsocialtheory.org/concepts/settler-colonialism/
    Article on Old Colony Mennonites among the Maya in the Yucatan Peninsula — https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/unlikely-feud-beekeepers-mennonites-simmers-mexico
    Article on “The Big Scoop” in Canada — https://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/features/the-sixties-scoop-explained

    As always, for more information please consult dofdmenno.org and Sarah’s book This Land is Not Empty: Following Jesus in Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery.

  • Episode 5: Reverence vs. Faith, Part Two

    August 9th, 2021  |  Season 1  |  31 mins 7 secs

    Sarah and Sheri continue the discussion of an Indigenous cosmology versus the Western worldview and how that impacts our Christian faith and practice.

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    Episode 4: Reverence vs. Faith

    July 26th, 2021  |  Season 1  |  28 mins 16 secs

    Sarah and Sheri talk about Indigenous cosmology and how it differs from the Western worldview in ways that have led directly to our dominant culture having a distorted relationship with nature, with creation, and with the processes of life. Sarah constructs an Indigenous theology of creation based on Scripture. We talk about the difference between individual and structural sin, as taught by the Hebrew prophets and as interpreted through the rabbi Jesus. We contrast Indigenous cosmology and the prophetic vision with the “systems of death” that now run our world.